Jefferson's Wall | Godless Blogger

Jun28 Let’s Discuss Jefferson
Category: Ramblings

I know I’ve talked about the fact that the United States of America was not founded upon religion or even by Christians, but I wanted to take a moment here to talk more about Thomas Jefferson. He’s the one who came up with the “wall of separation” after all and the battle to keep it erected isn’t going away anytime soon.

Many people seem to be under the impression that the founding fathers were Christians and this nation is founded upon the Bible and Christian values. Or at least the Religious Right wants us all to think that. Jefferson, was a deist and at one point during his campaign was accused of being an infidel and atheist because of his different beliefs. I don’t think that overall it really matters, I just wanted people to be aware that Jefferson was not what most people would call a Christian.

While not godless, he is reported to have said something that really strikes through to me : “Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.” If on Judgement Day I turn out to be wrong, I like to think God would understand pursuit of knowledge and skepticism over being merely a sheep and believing everything I hear. Although, this rarely even occurs to me as I am fairly convinced there is no skyman.

Let’s get to one of my favorite things related to Jefferson. The wall. For me, it is one of my favorite things about this country. It gives us our secular state. Justice John Paul Stevens put it best:

“Whenever we remove a brick from the wall that was designed to separate religion and government, we increase the risk of religious strife and weaken the foundations of our democracy.”

I think that as a nation of mixed belief, we should maintain the best method fairness available and continue to not have a state religion. By keeping a wall of separation between religion and government, it keeps things fair for all.

Here are two quotes from Jefferson about his wall:

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” thus building a wall of separation between church and State.

The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg

The saddest thing is that we still haven’t fully reached the competition of this wall. Perhaps we have at some point, but it seems like nearly everyday somebody goes and tears it down a little. I don’t want my taxes funding a Catholic school and thanks to the wall, they usually don’t. Hopefully one day we won’t have to fight over it anymore and have a purely secular government. As far as I can see, religion has no place in the government. I end this with a quote from my a favorite comedian, the late George Carlin.

I’m completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.

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Tags: church and state, deism, establishment clause, founding fathers

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kennywyland
I've had discussions with many people over the years about whether or not this is a Christian nation. Christians seem absolutely blind to the fact that the Bill of Rights and our body of Laws really has very little in common with Biblical views. I think there is a simplistic, non-rational mindset involved wherein they see 10 original amendments in the Bill of Rights and 10 Commandments in the Bible and therefore they must be the same. Or maybe it's because amendment sounds like commandment. *shrug* I'm not sure, but that is certainly the impression I get.

During these conversations, I try to explain that the Bill of Rights isn't religious in the slightest, but instead it is a litany of the wrongs inflicted by the King. No matter how many times though that I walk them through the first 10 amendments... they just never get it. Our laws and our founding documents are not Christian... they aren't even religious regardless of denomination.
godlessblogger
Been there before. Or the fact that Hammurabi predates Biblical code. That one always is denied or rejected. Clearly it's because the Bible is the original and de facto moral code.
Justin
Oh, and props for the Carlin quote, he is my favourite comedian too. :)
Justin
The one odd thing I find about America is that people were fleeing the Religious absolutism of Old Europe (amongst other things, of course) but now America is going down a path of rigid and unrelenting religiosity while Europe is more secular and non-religious than ever (ignoring the influx of Muslims who have recently immigrated into European countries).

An odd thing about religious folk who argue against the wall is that they are arguing against something that benefits the church as well. The separation works both ways. It protects the church from the government so I don't understand how they can't see this.

I wish my country (Australia) had a far more transparent way of separating govt./state and church. My govt seems to be handing over absurd amounts of tax dollars to religious organizations, keeping in mind this is an organizations that pays zero taxes on the millions of dollars they make.
kennywyland
Justin, I have wondered the same thing, but I believe the reason why Christians don't see the need to protect their religion from government is because our government has been Christian-friendly for so long. When you aren't suffering any attacks, then there appears to be no danger. You can bet if the US government was trying to implement laws according to Muslim beliefs that the Christians would be ALL ABOUT the separation of Church and State.
godlessblogger
Exactly! Which is probably the reason I so vehemently defend it. :)